I believe there has been a discussion about "In" group and stuff. To pre-empt flame wars and spoil the Ping.SG Top 10 landscape (which by the way is heavily scrutinised by traditional media aka newspaper), I have opened this forum for further (if any) discussions. I hope not to see another "crescendo" affair.
As to in or out, anyone with any outward displeasure, please voice here. The appropriate personnels in Ping.SG should be able to clarify faster and better. FYI, I am not an official personnel. I just want to help the community move forward.
I personally dun like the "in"/"out" tag, but I accept that it is a personal opinion by Daphne and we have to respect that. What is "in" for some is "out" for others. I like Giordano you like LV. I like Beatles you like FIR. No need to be offended.
Kudos Dhope for starting this. Hopefully discussions will remain civil here :)
But yes, I agree that we cannot go about officially excluding people saying who is in or out. I do not believe that it was daphne's intention to mean that, but I guess others would have taken it the wrong way.
I believe the community makes efforts to welcome people and after that its really up to the person how active/inactive they want to be. but in the end we are all part of this larger community :)
It realliy depends if you view this in or out as impt. Every community has this core grp or this super-active grp which u can see them almost every day in the community or appear almost every time in outings. But..this core grp changes as people do change.
So what if ping is heavily scru by newspaper. Trad newsp jus want stuff to write and this is part of their job. If u r nt newsworthy, who cares if u score in the top ten every day.
Unless there's smone list who's in the in grp (which I doubt so), then there will be speculations, rumours etc.
An "in" tag won't propel ur blog to win the OMG award, an "out" tag will not crush ur blog either.
To me, being a part of a community is to help or be helped and to make frens.
If u happen to make sm frens (not hi-bye ones) or buddies in ping, then tt's reali great and it doesn't matter whether u r in or out.
@Uzyn: I understand very clearly what you are doing is to make all pingsters feel they are one big family. I can see effort also coming from dhope, pacey, cc and arzhou as well. And at the looks of these few names, they are from what I considered the most liberal, and most accommodating of some of the older pingsters.
I do certainly hope my view that there is a 'schism' is completely and utterly wrong.
But let me wager you on this: The voting patterns and the winners of this coming Ping anniversary award maybe quite indicative where the fault lines lie, even if it won't be a definitive indication of the 'schism'.
And if I am right, then how to mend the cracks, is all up to you. :)
As always, I only want the best for Ping, its integrity and its community, which is why I might have made some enemies along the way when I see people abusing Ping and tainting its integrity in a way. I do not wish to see the community split into "camps" not do I want to see anyone leaving the community. As what I wrote on DK's blog, "Trying to cut down one big teak tree down for its wood in a forest may result to felling a dozen others as the canopy is heavily interlocked, before you know it, the forest is gone..."
I do hope sometimes, everyone just slow down, step out of the picture and Ping and look in. Have you done anything, good or bad, beneficial or not, abusing or not, helpful or not, to the community?
let me put it this way: if really want to classify in or out, everyone who is logged-in to ping.sg is in.
We did not pay a single cent to ping.sg, but we put in feelings, passion, effort. Every pingster wants ping.sg to be better for everyone.
Yes people are different. We have diverse background. But there is something called unity in diversity. Won't it be nice if everyone becomes more accepting to one another? Tolerance is a bad word, cos tolerance can't last. Acceptance is the way to go.
We all make mistakes. I'm not trying to say who is right and who is wrong in this case. What is important is, can we just calm down, take a step back, look back at what we have done, and see if it could have been handled better. How it could have been better for everyone, not just ourselves.
paced: Give up gal. It's useless. I've given up already. Why bother? If the official stand is that there is going to be an elite "in group", then so be it. We don't own the place. We have no rights to make any comments.
DK, but but, we are part of the community right? We are one big family mah... Don't like that lah... Don't give up lah... There are bound to be cliques everywhere mah... Ping.sg also never come up with the "elite" name list, so not "official" lah hor... Somemore it's Ping's birthday, happy occasion, tok tok tong ciang occasion...
Paced: What community? You mean the "in group" community?
When the shallow incident happen couple of months back, some of the regulars left because they are unhappy with the way Daph handle the whole issue. I stayed on because I believe that there is still hope for this community. But today I saw with my very own eyes that they want to built their own elite group. They got no idea how many members were pissed off with those comments. They want to continue to live in their "in group" world, thinking that they are about the rest.
If that is the case, let them be. I've given up hope on this community. Let them do whatever they like. I really no eyes to see.
DK here. I'm banned on ping.sg. Wow.... that is a new low. So what rules did I broke? Why was I banned? You got a rule say cannot argue with your community manager huh?
Uzyn uzyn..... why ask me a question on forum when you blocked my nick from forum? You want to know who left? Why not ask your community manager? She knows who accused of her posting shallow post. You go check if that person is still active in ping.sg or not.
Wow... someone really wants to be antagonistic....
DK: most of us here are trying to have a proper discussion and keeping things civil. The way I see it, you are trying to make trouble with antagonistic statements. Just CHILL. geez
@dhope Yup. dk99 was banned due to his recent actions of trying to destroy the site and the community. Anyway, the user was just shown the door for he has self-declared to have given up on the community.
The decision was nothing personal and not due to what the user claimed to be - disagreeing with the community manager nor for difference of opinion.
I don't think he was trying to "destroy the site and the community". Or does Ping.sg does not allow airing of one's thoughts no more? The wrong choice of words does evoke different reactions and feelings from everybody.
I'm sorry but I'm totally disgusted by the banning bit.
And perhaps I'll be banned for saying that I'm disgusted with that. *shrugs*
I don't agree with the banning either, but I do agree that DK is not really making any constructive comments here.
I understand his point of view on this issue. That said, everything he's said on this forum (which was created to keep things civil and hopefully resolve this - I think), was not geared towards this purpose.
I think that arzhou, cc, xizor, dhope, paced, ironicgamer were all posting in hopes to help make things better, and I hope DK will too.
The damage has been done. The focus now should be on fixing the broken pieces, not smashing it further into a trillion pieces.
I just hope that this chapter will be closed soon. :)
Been quiet for awhile but I think the banning is a bit much.
On one hand, to be entirely frank, I'm getting sick and tired of DK whining about the situation and would like him to propose a solution instead of just making things worse.
On the other hand I think we're all friends and friends argue and disagree, but that doesn't mean we exile them.
I agree with uniquefrequency in a way and that we should come up with a solution for this.
I'm defending Daph because of how I know her and I knew she did not mean things others thought she meant. I'm defending DK too because of how I know him and how he is trying to help the community, but maybe chose the wrong method.
Chinese got this saying: The palm of the hand have flesh, the back of the hand also have flesh. How? I really don't know...
I would also like to share my personal views about how I felt when I read Daphne's entry regarding the "in" group. I do not wish to fight but just like to foster a constructive discussion regarding this matter. It is also not my wish to offend anyone. I apologise in advance if I had inadvertently done so in my following comment.
When I read Daphne's post, it left a bad aftertaste when I read it. Even though Daphne may have stated in her earlier entry that her views are her personal opinions, but in reality, it is difficult to separate her roles - the role of Daphne the prominent blogger and Daphne the ping.sg community manager. I didn't blog my unhappiness about Daphne's entry as I've the utmost respect for uzyn and ping.sg but since DK had blogged about the issue, I would also like to openly voice my opinion on this.
In Daphne's entry: Quote: "Another Pizza outing, and this time, there was really a stark contrast in the group that attended. This group was the boisterous group, the eloquent group, the popular group on Ping.sg. Yes, there really is such a thing as the “in group”, as in all other communities - I don’t deny that. Well, nothing wrong with that anyway, not everyone is equal, and not everyone has the same interests!"
I'm sorry but the para can easily be inferred to say that even if you had participated in previous outing, if you had not attended THIS pizza outing, you are not eloquent, you are not popular and you are definitely not "in". I've used the word "definitely" in the previous sentence as I've inferred it from her words "there really is such a thing". When she said that "not everyone is equal", it can be easily inferred that some members have more rights or privilege than others. If she didn't mean it that way, it would have been less damaging and damning if she had just said "not everyone is the same".
Imagine how the new members would feel when they read Daphne's entry? Do you think they would feel that it was a message of welcome? Even though this may not be Daphne's intention, but it did make me feel like an outcast or an unwelcome member of ping.sg. Who likes to be tag with the label of "out", "unpopular"?
I just wanted to share my opinion as a ping.sg member who is on the other side of the fence, from the view of a member who has never participated any outings. Even though I've been a member earlier than Daphne by almost one year, I felt that I was suddenly labeled as "out" or "unpopular". It is not a good feeling.
Some may have thought that this was a small matter but I beg to differ. The development of this incident has led to one member's account being banned/deleted.
I felt I was no longer welcome in ping.sg. There is a new club in ping.sg now.
i regret the fact that I commented on DK's post and I followed Daphne's twitter "I'm in? Are you?" thing.
I apologize if I'm seen as a two-face.
I regret the fact that I put my feet in the mud.
But i've been in the mud, so what the heck.
I've been silent sooooooo many times. I am quite a regular in ping.sg, even though I only make 2 pongs or 3 pongs now compared to the previous version. I know many of you guys know me. I've been silent. I never blog about something popular in ping.sg. When there's a breaking news and everybody in ping.sg started to blog about it, I never followed. When there was(ere) flamewar(s) I said nothing and did nothing.
But now, let me say..
I condemn the banning. This reflects quite badly for ping.sg since it will seem that ping.sg doesn't want to resolve the issue further. I don't know how to elaborate more on the reason why I don't like it. I can't think. But I don't like the banning part. It's a bit too much. Period.
update:
Yes, now I can say some reasons. Some "DK supporters" will be leaving ping.sg too and it's a valid point that it's ping.sg's loss not theirs. I understand about getting rid of 1 small thing to keep the 1 big thing going on, but this thing you're getting rid of is no way a small thing.
DK, you're being so childish. Take some time back to think about the damage you've made and the number of people you finally hurt. You didn't hurt Daphne. You didn't hurt Uzyn. Not only them. You hurt us all. It's now not about your thought. It's not about Daphne's thought. It's not about our own thoughts and opinions. It's your ego. I know you and Daphne personally and, more than you know, it hurt me when you hurt each other over something that could be avoided.
Daphne, we're still friends and all but please know, I also didn't like the labeling and I felt quite uneasy too coz I haven't joined ping.sg outing. However, I understand that you didn't mean it that way. I also didn't like your act of gathering "supporters" but I still followed just because I thought there was no harm. I am your friend, but I don't like your way of getting things done like that. It's a good thing though that you clarify things.
1) some of you are obviously 对人不对事, Daphne already explained and clarified. Most of the so-called 'In' group are here trying to pacify you people, yet all you people do is WHINE AND WHINE AND WHINEEEEE like little kiddies. SO what exactly do ya guys want?! just say lar! stop beating around the bush!!!
2) some of you who totally don't involve yourself in outings, events and etc. over at ping.sg suddenly becomes alllllllll concern about the well-being of ping.sg. To me I just think you're being a attention-whore.
3) If you say some of us here are being the 'elite'. Then let me just say some of you are being anti-social for not fitting in. I mean, did anyone take a gun, point it at your head and say you cannot join??? Don't blame us for your inability to socialize in real life.
4) Stop using the computer and GO OUT. Anywhere also can, obviously cooping yourself up at home with your computer is doing some thing(s) bad to your brain.
5) Get a girl and a bed. Porn is good too if ya want to de-stress.
6) Grow the F- Up, Put the F- Up, and SHUT THE F- UP. Cliques exists. No such thing as 'EVERYBODY IS EQUAL'. Stop being so naive and live in your lala land.
7) This is the Internet. You don't have to score too high to go to heaven.
8) Some people Keep saying We are undermining the overall well-being of Ping.sg, but have you ever think that YOU people are the one undermining the overall well being of ping.sg by being so whiny and idiotic? stop being hypocrites.
9) I don't agree in DK's banning. But He should have been well prepared for this. He was being an Troll. Period. Anyways didn't He say that He couldn't care less and have no eyes to see?? Be a Man and don't eat your own words.
10) Uzyn, because of all this stupid hoo-haa, REDESIGNED the ping.sg slogan JUST TO APPEASE you people, yet, you guys are still unappeased and continue to whine like little pussies. If I were Uzyn, I would ban the whole lot of you ungrateful bastards.
11) Stop assuming, I don't see new members or random pingsters populating the top 10 with posts of unhappiness over the use of ONE word Daphne used. And to tell you the truth, I'm glad. AT LEAST there are matured people out there.
12) i will use myself as an example. I was a somewhat active member of STOMP last time, it was quite similar to here, we have outings and etc. and I contributed and seriously, my ultimate aim was for everyone to 'live' harmoniously as a community, but due to some things those mofo mods did, our community crumbled. I tried to salvaged it as hard as I could, But all I got was rebukes and quotes like 'you are brain washed by stomp!' and etc. do you noe how hurt I felt back then?
So I gave up, and I quit. I forced myself NEVER to go back to that website by BLOCKING it's url. (yes that was how addicted I was)
So, seriously, if ya not happy. DON'T COME BACK. there ARE alot of such sites all over the internet. you won't die leaving one. Life still goes on.
To end off,
You people should feel freaking ashamed of yourself. Open mouth close mouth say you love ping.sg and you want to see it grow, yet LITTLE LITTLE bit of thing only you guys blow it out of proportion. wtf?! I mean I donnoe about you lar hor, but for me, If I love something, I will be more UNDERSTANDING, TOLERANT, AND if the need be, COMPROMISE. BECAUSE unlike you, I understand that on the internet, Words tend to get misinterpreted easily and ultimately a blog is about our OWN personal opinions, and when there are opinions, there will definitely be the ones who agree and the ones who disagrees.
Bottomline is, Being part of a 'Community Meta Blog', one must exercise MUCH MORE tolerance and understanding than say.. being a part of some zabalang forums, because ultimately, blogging gets in touch with a 'DEEPER' side of people and we all noe what happens when you're not careful when voicing your opinions.
It's not easy ok. Count yourself lucky our community is still here. Stop expecting so much from ping.sg and start doing something positive. We all makes mistakes for We are humans, how would you feel if you were in Uzyn's or Daphne's shoes?
没有功劳,也有苦劳.
Did you PAY when you sign up? No right? Did ANYONE here OWE you anything? NO RIGHT?!
I tried to stay neutral, but I just cannot tahan you whiny bitches anymoar.
Though don't ya worry, this will be my first and last time taking a stand regarding this issue. Afterall, I have A LIFE offline.
Thankyouverymuch.
PS: To no one in particular: I donnoe your intention(s), but seriously, may you burn in hell if ya doing all this so that you can raise your 'popularity' and hence win some awards/get some attention. That is seriously the lowest a person can get.
I actually wrote 2 un-published blog posts & deleted 1 post... because if we keep blogging and talking about this in hurtful ways, then it won't help anything and it will hurt people's feelings.
What have said have said and what is done is done.
Honestly, I really miss the stickiness we had back then (during Ping T-shirt launch).
And yes if you ask me, I'm the quiet type in gatherings (very low profile one), no camwhore and seldom being ask to take photo with (not 帅) but I can remember the who's who in the gathering. And I enjoyed the gathering every time.
Diff ppl support Ping in diff ways.
I know DK and I know Kitty. From what I see, both are supporting Ping in diff ways.
In a community, there are bound to have conflicts and from all the comments till now, I agreed with paced that everyone has to 退一步、海阔天空。(One step back and you see the light).
i know everyone die die wants me to say something. i'm acting against my own 'policy' whn i write this, by defending myself more than once. but i feel that i have to say something, otherwise no one will let it go.
first of all, i have apologized (as in my recent-most public blog post) about using those words that i have in that blog entry in question. maybe some of you felt that the way i apologized in that blog post was not sincere. but let me just reiterate that i'm really really sorry for not considering the feelings of the others who did not go for the outing. i never meant it that way.
i know that as community manager, i should have watched what i said, and it was my mistake for not having done so properly. i apologize for that...
however, i must clarify this, that it was a mistake, an honest to goodness mistake. i felt angry when i saw that DK leveraged on this mistake to create a controversy n accuse me of tearing the community apart. he could have contacted me n told me that my blog was offensive. i would have listened.
i do not want to be a hypocrite and say that i like DK. but i did not dislike/hate him as what people think. my feelings towards him are more of... nonchalance, i suppose. up until this whole issue came up.
i personally felt that he was not only attacking me as a community manager, but also as a person. some of you may know that there is bad blood between myself and DK, but i never stooped so low as to publicly attack him. that is never my style. those closer to me can vouch for that, especially when u saw how i didnt react to the blog post that an ex-boyfriend wrote about me. yes, i wrote a blog entry, but at least i locked it up with a password.
regarding the ban:
uzyn banned DK because, as he said, DK was doing something to harm the community. he was insinuating that i wanted people to be divided into the "in group" or the "out group". there isn't an "out group". he was indirectly asking people to choose whether they want to stay, or not, because in the end they may be labelled as "in" or "out".
as a community manager, i want the best for the community. perhaps i care too much about the community. do u guys know what my friends from JC/Uni tell me? they say that i spend too much time in the community, doing things for the community, and that i neglect them. yes, i admit i do that sometimes, but it's bcos i treasure the friends i have found from this community, so much so that i put all my heart and soul into it.
yes, i may have unknowingly caused people to feel unwelcome in this community. but trust me when i say that i never meant to do that.
after 13 months of being in this community, those of you who have been around longer than i have, have seen me grow with the community. i came in as a nobody. but now i am somebody because of all of u. i stand by what i said, that a blogger is nobody without the community and his/her friends. likewise, i am nobody without all of u. i treasure this community because of all that it has given me. n contributing to it is my only way of giving back to the friends that have given me so much love n support. not just supporting my blog, but also me, as a friend.
when i joined ping.sg, it was because i was seeking some sort of escape from all the relationship problems that i was having. u guys may not have known it at that time, because i never said anything. ping.sg gave me a life, and it gave me something to care about, and to look forward to. it gave me a distraction from my problems at that time. but soon i found more n more to love abt the community. ping.sg members saw me through my most heartbreaking break up ever. i remember when i was so depressed after the break up, that i was suicidal.
someone from ping.sg whom i love n cherish dearly as a friend, brought me out. he talked to me. he gave me the attention i needed. he listened to me and let me cry. he distracted me by introducing me to his friends who were in town from overseas. he constantly checked on me to see if i was feeling better. he doesn't know it, but he pulled me out of that depression.
and on one occassion during that depressive period, i ran crying to uzyn n sekling, two of my dearest friends who have seen me through countless relationships over the years. more on this later. back to that day. i cried n cried at their house, n to cheer me up, uzyn jus made a few calls, n a whole bunch of pingsters came out for supper at 11+ PM n told me jokes, talked to me, and cheered me up. DK was one of those people. he didnt dislike/hate me at that time, i guess. the dislike/hatred came later (but that's not what i want to talk abt).
after this break up, i had another relationship. a lot of u know that. it was such a public relationship, all over his blog and my blog. people celebrated for us, n all the pingsters wished us well. unfortunately, this relationship ended quite soon, n again, the pingsters gave me the encouragement to move on.
again n again, over the months that ensued, pingsters and ping.sg activities gave me something to love and to cherish. i have made so many friends from ping.sg. my msn list is overflowing with pingsters. i have more ping.sg friends on my msn than friends from my uni/jc days.
this is how much ping.sg means to me.
so how is it that u all can accuse me of wanting to break the community up?
yes. the twitter thing should not have happened, perhaps, because it was could have been interpreted as another sign that i want to break the community up. however, at that point in time, i decided to do it because i felt that it was a way for me to say that it's a small issue that has been blown up into a big issue. ditto for the "i'm going to watch my dvds" statement in the earlier part of this forum.
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